On-Demand Webinar: The Student Journey: Equity-Centered Approaches to Removing Barriers

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Hello everybody welcome. We’re gonna get started in just a minute or so we’re just waiting for everyone to come into the room.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): All right, hello, whether good morning or good afternoon wherever you are in the world, right now, thank you for joining us this afternoon for a seeing us webinar on The Student Journey:

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Equity centered approaches to removing barriers. We are so excited to be able to bring this to you this afternoon and a half of this discussion that is very timely and needed.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And you demonstrated that that you showed that was over 900 higher education practitioners and educators registered to receive.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): This recording and registered to participate, so thank you all for joining us and you’re representing.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): All different types of professions and work within higher education, so thank you so much for being here with us.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): My name is Tia McNair and I serve as the Vice President for diversity equity and student success at AAC&U.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And I also have the pleasure of serving as the Executive Director of the Truth Racial Healing and Transformation Campus Centers.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): I will serve as your moderator for this amazing panel this afternoon. I’m deeply privileged to do so. So why are we here.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Why do we decide to do this particular webinar so let’s just talk about the realities of what’s happening in higher education.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): We know that college enrollment is down over 1 million students in just over the past two years.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): We know that seven out of 10 of their role college students are what we are calling non traditional but knowing now that seven out of 10.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Are in that adult learner category, we probably need to start thinking about not saying non traditional. That’s kind of antiquated.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): In the way thinking, they are higher education students, the average age of a student in a community college is 28. Four in 10 college students are over the age of 24,

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): and fewer than 2.7 million of the 20 million students who go full time live on campus the adult learner population.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Is our higher education student population, and that is why this conversation is so important and probably why so many of you have decided to join us this afternoon and to register for this webinar next slide please.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): We first want to start by thanking our wonderful sponsor, Wiley University Services

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): for hosting this particular webinar and offering it to our membership in our Community for free. So we want to say thank you so much to Corey and his team. Corey is on the panel you’ll meet him in a few minutes.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): For just being with us and serving as a sponsor for this we value our sponsors.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So just some housekeeping notes before we introduce the panel, and if you want to use the Q&A.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): for discussion, if you want to use the Q&A feature that is on this zoom webinar to raise questions, please do so.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): We have also enabled the ability for you to up both questions or to sign on and say, yes, I have a similar question, so we will know which ones, to write to race to the top.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): For our discussion, you also were asking you to use the chat feature for any type of technology support and I just want to say.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Thank you to Sam, Nicole and Adair and Shandi – I mean the whole team, and that is put this together, for us, and we really appreciate them working with us to do this.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And they’ll be behind the scenes answering those questions if you have any issues with technology, we are going to post the slides and the recording from the webinar today, you will have the opportunity, and access to it if you did register, so thank you so much for that next slide please.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So let’s get started with this conversation.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): This these are panelists and I am going to ask each one of them to introduce themselves to you to tell a little bit about who they are their institutions, their role for example at wiley university services.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): But then also I want to ask them why is this focus on adult learner so important for them, they each we have this opportunity, as we were preparing for this, they each gave.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): That testimonial in that preparation process for us, and I think it’s important for you to hear that as well.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Because we all have motivating reasons for why we do the work that we do, and I think it’s important for you to get to know the panelists in that particular way so Mike I’m going to start with, you can you introduce yourself and then answer the question for me.

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Michael Stevens: Yes, absolutely and I can’t Thank you enough Dr McNair and Wiley for putting this program together this webinar is very, very important, you know and.

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Michael Stevens: I’m so pleased to be asked to serve as a panelist.

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Michael Stevens: A little bit about the animal your college it’s a super dynamic private institution or a Catholic institution located just about an hour west of Boston and the city of Worcester.

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Michael Stevens: We have dynamic leadership and President Mary Lou retail and academic leadership, Dr Chris Holmes, and we specialize in public service, we have we have majority first generation students.

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Michael Stevens: social work, education, public safety, firefighters paramedics we have one of the.

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Michael Stevens: Only seven programs in the country that offer paramedic students, an opportunity to get a bachelor’s degree combined in without fire science curriculum it’s a really super dynamic Program.

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Michael Stevens: we’re proud of our alumni were well known for public safety across the United States, one of our young graduates is now working in for the secret service at the White House.

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Michael Stevens: We have alumni that are distinguished and accomplished, and we take great pride in what we do in in our mission at the enemy of college and what drove me.

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Michael Stevens: to higher education, particularly the enemy a college is my passion for first generation students on one I come from a neighborhood in Boston Massachusetts known as Dorchester where I had 11 siblings and.

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Michael Stevens: I saw all around me there’s so much potential and young people that was never realized for a lot of reasons, and so, when I came into higher education and Anna Maria college.

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Michael Stevens: The reward is just you know, compounded when you see these young people come in and we were talking earlier.

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Michael Stevens: prior to the meeting about young kids coming in today and how to keep them engaged in the pub the importance of retention and outreach to these kids and.

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Michael Stevens: And I see the same thing with our adult learners right on so many and we and I and we’re going to talk a little bit more, but you know, I will say that when I came into my Program.

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Michael Stevens: It was a smaller enrollment and I understand the trends that are happening across the country.

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Michael Stevens: But we’ve turned that around with hundreds and hundreds of new students coming into our programs now.

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Michael Stevens: And I want to share with our panel today on how we accomplished out but it wasn’t just one thing, it was a combination of everything from outreach at the program level to prospective students to high quality teaching and engagement and retention.

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Michael Stevens: There are a lot of pieces that go with this conversation today and I’m really excited about the opportunity to share my vision and what we’ve seen in for success and how we think we can continue to grow on that, so this is going to be an exciting and exciting webinar.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Okay Thank you so much Betty.

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Betty Fortune: Good afternoon, and thank you.

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Betty Fortune: To for inviting me to participate in this panel discussion today.

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Betty Fortune: I am from Houston Community college and I have worked there for over 20 years I’ve had 20 years of experience in higher education and this topic is so timely.

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Betty Fortune: Because of so many things that have happened is he has mentioned that the dynamics of the demographics have changed every year.

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Betty Fortune: We once had a huge population of students coming straight out of high school and we still do, but we have a larger population.

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Betty Fortune: of students who are returning students who’ve been out for a for a while they’ve raised families and now they’re back of your.

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Betty Fortune: Here changing Korea pass those kinds of things are they just need they just need a good job, and the one they have is not paying what they need to have so a lots of retooling.

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Betty Fortune: Huge transfer programs, we have a lot of continuing ED courses that we offer, as well as workforce programs that can lead folks to good paying jobs, including Ms.

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Betty Fortune: Police Academy, we have we just have a wealth of technical programs that we offer now in the Community, so this is a very time to conversation, because when we pull the data.

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Betty Fortune: And we look at the retention rate of the adult learners it’s not keeping up where it needs to keep up in order to help these people to be able to persist.

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Betty Fortune: We can look at achievement gaps when when you look at the comparisons between demographics and not only demographics, but age.

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Betty Fortune: There is a gap that some folks have in the older populations, they have been up for school for a while, so then some skills have not been used, and of course they meet retooling.

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Betty Fortune: And so we noticed that these folks have other challenges that a student who just graduated high school will not have.

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Betty Fortune: They have very different and if we’re going to be a student ready college is teacher has written about in her book which I love dearly.

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Betty Fortune: We have to make, be able to meet students, where they are and not necessarily what we expect them to be when we come when they come to us if we.

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Betty Fortune: teach them are using what we think they should know.

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Betty Fortune: Then, a lot of students will fall by the wayside, and that is really not what we want to do so, we want to meet the challenge we want to be able to meet the students, where they are provide the support that they need to help them be successful in their.

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Betty Fortune: search for a career path, and the only way we’re going to do that is by having these kinds of conversations I think it’s just wonderful for us to learn from each other to share out information.

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Betty Fortune: I’ve been looking recently for any kind of new.

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Betty Fortune: Research out there that’s all how to get students back so I might just share with us a lot of things that he’s already doing so, this is a wonderful conversation, and then a great opportunity for us to.

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Betty Fortune: Not only share what to learn from each other, and thank you to you again for inviting me to be a part of this panelists today.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): JEREMY Thank you so much benny Thank you Corey.

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Corey Miller: Hello everyone Good afternoon, thank you, AAC&U for having us today and Betty Mike you know honored to be on a panel with you. I am the Vice President of marketing for Wiley University services, so we work with.

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Corey Miller: A set of institutions around the world to help them.

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Corey Miller: Essentially, take up their programs to service adult learners provide access do all those things and help them through the entire student funnels from marketing recruiting enrollment services.

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Corey Miller: You know retention and even beyond graduation, and a lot of cases so I’m thrilled to be here today, this topic is super important, I think, to your question is I you know why, is why am I passionate about this, and why am I focused on it.

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Corey Miller: As a marketer you know I’m a marketer but I’m also a modern consumer too, and we all are, and there’s just so many new things available to us as students, as buyers as consumers.

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Corey Miller: To really meet people on their terms and deliver new and different experiences, and you know when I think about what we do at Wiley and what we’re focused on we’re in the business of helping students.

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Corey Miller: meet their goals and helping institutions kind of succeed so in a marketplace that’s expanding and changing and moving so rapidly with everything that’s new and available to us this topic is right at the intersection of it, so you know super excited to kind of get into.

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Corey Miller: You know how we’re doing that some of the products that we’re building and some of the some of the trends and things that we’re seeing, so thank you to you.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Thank you so much core thing ever and I, and I just want to address the question we are working and trying to.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): figure out what’s going on with the zoom closed captioning right feature, and so our team is behind the scenes working on that, but just know that we will have a transcript.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): From this webinar that we will be able to post alongside of it, so I want to apologize for that, and you are exactly right, this is a webinar on equity in addressing barriers.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And we need to make sure that we are looking at all aspects of that so I just want to apologize for that and we are working.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): On this, and if we can’t get this act enabled for the webinar right now, it will definitely make sure that we can have closed captioning I mean the transcript attached to this.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Okay, so I’m going to ask the panelists first a question and for anyone to answer, I hope you all want to answer this, how do you think institutions can go about creating seamless.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Students centered experiences from starting from the marketing related to access through enrollment and beyond, and what do we need to do to make students feel like they are invited and welcomed in the academic community and that they will be supported throughout their journey.

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Michael Stevens: All together that one first okay I.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): started I want everyone to answer that to play off go ahead, sorry.

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Michael Stevens: No, I you know.

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Michael Stevens: be really good at what you do right, you know, like you have content and you have programs and be really good at your programs.

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Michael Stevens: You know, in our case, for in my case, for example, a moment associate Vice President for public safety programs.

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Michael Stevens: And I look at those programs it’s coming it’s going to start with there’s a lot happening here that’s about recruitment it’s about engagement it’s about quality curriculum like.

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Michael Stevens: I want to have the ideal highest quality deliverable to are the most innovative and best for teaching and learning to prepare students for success in the occupation.

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Michael Stevens: And that’s what we do, we build super dynamic content and it’s all built around things like 21st century policing what it really is social justice, and how does it apply to public safety professionals today.

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Michael Stevens: Who are faculty while they’re the best and the brightest people who are we’re blessed to have some of the most competent in highly Harvard.

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Michael Stevens: MIT folks are their PhDs and JD is our faculty but we support it with working professionals FBI agents us marshals, and so we compliment that outstanding high quality full time faculty with.

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Michael Stevens: rock stars in the adjunct piece, and they bring the latest innovative whether it’s you know, the development of our new friendship science Program.

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Michael Stevens: Where people who are actually working in the crime labs are helping them develop the curriculum with our academic teams.

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Michael Stevens: So you really believe that what you’re delivering is the very best and now the next thing for me is.

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Michael Stevens: How do I bring students to this program that’s what everybody wants to know isn’t it like, how do we grow in Rome.

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Michael Stevens: And not only how do we grow enrollment, how do we maintain high retention and prepare these folks young and older.

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Michael Stevens: For success in the occupation and actually placed them in jobs we don’t we’re not just satisfied, putting them through a great learning environment and experience.

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Michael Stevens: We want to place our students actually in jobs, so when they crossed that stage there they got job opportunities right so.

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Michael Stevens: You know, and for me it’s like a whole new recruitment piece.

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Michael Stevens: We have a great admissions team and there’s some of my closest friends on the campus and we work with them every day, but I will tell you.

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Michael Stevens: As a program leader I’m not satisfied with what admissions is doing and neck not negative like what can we do at the program level to recruit.

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Michael Stevens: We take our subject matter expert to our adjunct faculty and they outreach to the Community.

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Michael Stevens: Whether it’s law enforcement professionals who you would be stunned at how many working professionals, want to come back and get their degrees.

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Michael Stevens: right but there’s anxiety about coming back to school, which.

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Michael Stevens: I’ve been out of school for 10 years I’ve been out of school for 15 years.

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Michael Stevens: I don’t know that I have the ability to be successfully navigate that type of curriculum So how do you outreach these folks to assure them in a supporting meaningful way that they’re going to find success.

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Michael Stevens: In the online Community or whatever modality and teaching on ground online right and so and we’ve had tremendous success identifying occupations and out reaching them at their level at their.

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Michael Stevens: police stations and their fire station engineer on their social media.

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Michael Stevens: You could have a law enforcement page on social media, with thousands of law enforcement professionals and if you can have a presence there.

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Michael Stevens: And you can market your program and be a voice for it and you would be surprised how effective, that is for recruitment, we have seen hundreds of new students just using that.

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Michael Stevens: And then, of course, if the quality of your program once they come in.

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Michael Stevens: And they’re using social media every day, you have to deliver what you promised right a high quality teaching and learning experiments, and that means.

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Michael Stevens: The very best faculty doing the very best engagement there what is there an intellectual instructional personal presence in a classroom for a faculty Member.

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Michael Stevens: How engaged, are they in that classroom what is feedback look like what is.

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Michael Stevens: timeliness for grading look like what is engagement in the class discussion look like all of those things that make the learning experience super dynamic because of the engage.

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Michael Stevens: faculty person who’s highly credentialed combined with innovative curriculum and they come in and they start to realize wow I can do this.

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Michael Stevens: Right and we always bring him in gently we don’t drop them in graduate staff right away, we don’t drop them into more difficult courses.

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Michael Stevens: With let them transition into the program and we teach them about writing in APA and we coach them and we support them and our retention numbers are in the high 90 percentile.

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Michael Stevens: And it’s been that way for almost three years now and I will say it’s of the highest quality of.

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Michael Stevens: The curriculum right so and then we see tremendous success doing that and ultimately result in these people going back to their employers to their colleagues chain, this is a really good program and you should do this and we see we.

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Michael Stevens: see a turnaround from as a result of that we see increased enrollment we could have one office, for example, come in from a law enforcement agency.

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Michael Stevens: And usually within six months or so we might have 15 or so from that very same department, who then say hey we understand, this is a really great program we’d like to become part of this.

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Michael Stevens: And so you know there’s a lot going on here it’s all about outreach for recruitment it’s about.

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Michael Stevens: The other thing I just want to add, and then I don’t want to take the whole show here but I’m obviously very enthusiastic and passionate about this is.

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Michael Stevens: Is timeliness with recruitment when you outreach potential students.

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Michael Stevens: There has to be a streamlined process from that initial communication to allowing them in and accepting them into the Program.

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Michael Stevens: Right, I have seen other programs where if there’s if you don’t meet the two-week deadline prior to start of our accelerated term, you have to wait until next time that’s not good that’s not a good practice right you want to outreach, so there are ways.

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Michael Stevens: To you know, to enhance the enrollment process and expediting facilitate it, so the student feels.

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Michael Stevens: that they are being supportive and that and that not only is in the initial enrollment piece, but throughout the Program.

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Michael Stevens: wrote students support and communication is essential to engagement, so you have a lot happening, you have you have the curriculum, you have the engagement from the Faculty and then students support from the it side.

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Michael Stevens: To academic advising enrollment there’s a lot happening there and you really have to take a close look at all those different aspects of your program and make them as efficient as possible.

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Michael Stevens: To ensure that high student satisfaction and student success.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): I completely agree with you Mike I think that the information that you shared I mean a lot of different pieces and all those pieces have to come together.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): In order for us to support student success and we have to be very expansive and the way that we look at it I’m trying to figure out who our students are, how do we.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You know, engage them in turn environments so Betty and Corey do you have aspects that you want to add to what Mike said, because I do believe in that intersectionality, that connection

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): that’s necessary to support students and their success.

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Betty Fortune: So yes, here, thank you, I will only add just a couple of things because Mike has covered it all the things that I believe unnecessary but two other things I like to add, in that one is, we need to.

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Betty Fortune: encourage students to be a part of the conversation.

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Betty Fortune: They bring such value to conversations on how to build things out and what students are needing but to keep them as part of the conversation when we are creating pathways or processes.

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Betty Fortune: Because they’re on the receiving end so keep them a part of the conversation The second thing I would like to add, is to make sure that the climate of the institution is positive.

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Betty Fortune: Creating that sense of belonging, not only for the students but a sense of belonging for faculty and staff because they the institution should be inviting to the student.

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Betty Fortune: We should understand our audience, we should know who we’re talking to who we are marketing to.

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Betty Fortune: And to do that, to get them there that the institution, the climate of the institution needs to be a positive one, so we need to be intentional.

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Betty Fortune: about making sure that we have good customer service skills on all of our frontline will to everybody that’s going to talk to us to that, I think that is this absolutely critical, because the students.

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Betty Fortune: Meeting one person who’s very negative can be the deterrent for that student coming back again so we want our students to feel like they belong.

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Betty Fortune: we’re supporting them and they should be here that they have back, so we have a right to be here in our classes that’s all I want to add, in addition to that.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Exactly so.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Good benny Cory do you want to respond to that.

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Corey Miller: Yeah, I love this topic and just to build on what Mike Betty said.

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Corey Miller: And this is, I guess, more through a marketing lens and how you create seamless experiences up front.

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Corey Miller: You know.

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Corey Miller: Everyone has the best intentions to deliver on this, I think, from a marketing kind of upfront recruiting experience, but I think we come across there’s one major piece.

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Corey Miller: That where we see a lot of opportunity, and that is to have student it centered experiences, you have to actually experience your student here.

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Corey Miller: Your institution at that part of the funnel either by being a student or collecting data from students, so you know I from a marketing standpoint, we encourage.

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Corey Miller: Our program directors and our counterparts, I campus secret shop what it’s like to be a prospect looking at your program we see most students look at you know up to four or five programs when considering options.

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Corey Miller: And it’s not a secret shop is like a gotcha but you know where things tend to get layered on, especially from a marketing standpoint and inconsistency show up so.

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Corey Miller: pretend you’re a student and go through the process and see you’d be amazed at like what communication is available to you, and what you’re hearing.

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Corey Miller: You know when was the last time you filled out an application for your own program one of the you know, one of the things that that we did with AMC and we didn’t Wiley as we build our own application product that meets students on their terms, I mean we were sitting down with.

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Corey Miller: You know, some institutions in La I have been filled out an application of my own program in 910 years like I didn’t even know we were asking this question like I you know I didn’t need, what are we even using this for.

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Corey Miller: Get the emails that you’re sending to your prospects, you know try in your House at eight o’clock at night to find an answer to a question on your website and see if it’s available like forever, you know pretending you’re an adult learner.

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Corey Miller: You know, implement voice of customer let you know people are so willing to in today’s kind of digital economy to share feedback and let that kind of roadmap your products but.

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Corey Miller: You know I think everyone has the best intentions of delivering a seamless experience but seamless you know from the institution out into the market is rarely as truly seamless as it is from a prospective’s point of view so

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Corey Miller: it’s always kind of a fun eye opening exercise that anyone can do it anytime to find all sorts of opportunity.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Hey, thank you great, great advice. Chris I’m going to start with you and I’m definitely I’m putting the question in here into chat for everyone to see so you.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Two different institutions HCC is a different institution that Mike since I mean the size and scope is across the board so Mike I’m going to be coming to you for this question two is, I just want to let you know get ready for it.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So what have you found to be some of the barriers for adult learners related to enrollment at HCC because

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You are serving a huge student population in Houston and what are some, the second question is, what promising strategies for accommodating adult learners have you implemented.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): That actually has been informed by what the students are telling you so I imagine, as we talked about as Corey mentioned just a few minutes ago that we’re not you know the experience is so different from those who have to utilize.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): The systems that we have in place.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): versus from those of us who designed the systems, and we have to be responsive to their needs.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So I would love to hear how maybe strategies for how you gather their feedback how you engage them.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): In this continuous improvement process, what are you learning what are you hearing what are you learning what are you implementing and Mike I’m coming to you right off the asking you the question because.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): different sizes institutions different types there’s a good to hear those perspectives.

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Betty Fortune: So let me start by saying Houston Community college.

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Betty Fortune: Is a large urban institution.

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Betty Fortune: The diversity it’s so apparent, we have been told that we are the largest, most diverse institutions of higher learning in Texas and beyond, and so you will see this.

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Betty Fortune: So many different ethnic groups you’ll see age groups you’ll see which is just diverse so many languages folks from international our international population is huge.

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Betty Fortune: And it just cuts across all six colleges, that we have there we’ve collected information from talking to students in several ways one we had focus groups.

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Betty Fortune: So we wanted to find out how to best serve students and the way you do that, you ask, so we asked them and then we also participated with the real College and the basic needs survey that we’ve been using without citizen during the pen different colored collecting information.

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Betty Fortune: And also, on top of that, I actually taught a class do independent because everyone did not know how to teach online.

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Betty Fortune: I collected information by talking to students personally Now let me tell you, some of the things that I found out, you may already have experienced these things, but a few of them one they were juggling family issues, some of Gordian somewhat parents.

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Betty Fortune: Some had children who were at home during the pandemic helping them with homework do my homework and all of those.

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Betty Fortune: So much of it had to do with scheduling difficulties number one for that reason, secondly scheduling difficulties came from result of all the folks that work.

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Betty Fortune: Many times they would have a schedule and they would prepare a schedule.

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Betty Fortune: For school and then their supervisors would change your schedule, which means they had to change the time they went to school.

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Betty Fortune: So scheduling was it was an issue, making sure that they were able to get the classes that they needed when they needed them, those that was that was a big win for them.

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Betty Fortune: We also found that because were relocated, we had many students that were having transportation problems, many of the adult learners were carpooling.

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Betty Fortune: Oh, with another parent or they’re carpooling and drop the chow Hall, to the campus or someplace else and so transportation and many of our campuses were not on bus routes.

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Betty Fortune: So that was one of the issues, then we also had another issue of daycare some folks that wanted to take classes, they couldn’t afford the daycare.

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Betty Fortune: So didn’t have any place and parents are the parents were working at home, so he couldn’t leave them there and they had actually no one.

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Betty Fortune: And nowhere to go to leave the children to take class, I mean you name it and there were challenges, some people, we found out we’re sleeping in cars.

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Betty Fortune: I don’t know if you’ve experienced that in your areas, but that was one things that came up from the conversation some students were sleeping in cars, because they did not have a housing.

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Betty Fortune: Some folks did not have food, we saw with some things we started doing after having these conversations we were already doing some things but not like we needed to do.

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Betty Fortune: We already had a food pantry but from hearing from the students, as so many people needed the food we had to increase that immediately, so he start partnering with Community organizations like.

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Betty Fortune: The Community organizations that distributed food, we would have the trucks come on the campus so many days of the week to help with that, so that we had to change a lot of the things that we did.

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Betty Fortune: We had people, one of the another barrier, I found from teaching the class with adult learners.

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Betty Fortune: Even though they have phones and they may have a computer in the home doesn’t mean that they know how to actually type A word document so they would challenge were using the technology and some platforms, for example, they were using their phone, but it did not.

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Betty Fortune: pair with canvas so.

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Betty Fortune: Our adult learners have a lot of challenges, a lot of barriers, a lot of things that come up in their life that we don’t really think about oftentimes.

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Betty Fortune: that they have to deal with on a daily basis, to help them access to this to get to the class to get a book and so forth, and so on, so we started doing several things we set up.

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Betty Fortune: places where make it go in and go on a parking lot and connect to Wi-Fi.

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Betty Fortune: We set those up for folks we set up our places where they can go and check out laptops we’ve been bought dozens and dozens thousands of thousands of laptops really because of the hurt funding that we got.

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Betty Fortune: So we start setting up little places at every college campus that we had to support and provide.

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Betty Fortune: The support that they told us that we needed and that was glad that we took the approach that let’s talk to the student first because oftentimes in the past, we have created supports.

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Betty Fortune: and make them available to students, but they are not things that the students were really interested in our could get to them, those kinds of things, so it took on a new perspective and now it’s taking off it’s going in every campus.

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Betty Fortune: This probably the biggest problem, I think we have after producing all of these supports, is the communication.

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Betty Fortune: So, so they told us what they another thing they told us what did you know we have this we have X.

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Betty Fortune: What where do I find this information, so we did have challenges, also with the marketing on our web page currently.

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Betty Fortune: Was and was just shocking to know we built all this, but nobody has thought about.

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Betty Fortune: How do you market it so putting it in the syllabus really wasn’t enough, you know you have to be able to have a facing so that people will understand how to get there.

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Betty Fortune: Where to go who to ask those kinds of things, so we had to develop a whole new marketing campaign on how to develop the support that we have already created and put in place in order to support students.

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Betty Fortune: Those are many of the challenges and these challenges have not gone away.

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Betty Fortune: We are still working with them, I think they’ll be ongoing because I think there’s still a lot for us to learn from our from our students, but we are intentionally developing supports that will help students to be productive and be able to be successful in this endeavor.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And someone else, I just wanted to there, and please put your questions and Q amp a will use the chat for any type of technical issues, but since this question is in there, I want to make sure embedding I think that.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): he’s talking directly to you there’s your college utilize student success coaching model.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And Mike and Betty are both shaking their head, so why don’t we go ahead and address that and talk a little bit about the student success coaching model that you have in place do you want he wants to Mike do you want to start with that first and then benny.

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Michael Stevens: Okay, no, I will say yes, we do and it’s an essential piece of what we’re doing on your college and Betty has talked on some cheese right on point on so many things about the culture of the institution.

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Michael Stevens: We were led by the super dynamic Vice President of academic affairs, to make sure that the communication across our campus leadership Dean engine directors, consistency and what we do for our students cross disciplinary all the things that we do.

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Michael Stevens: So it’s not a school nearly the size of with nearly the challenges that Betty just talked about but have we seen students sleeping in cars we have on a private institution in a parking lot because they can’t afford housing right and so.

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Michael Stevens: But our student success model is really well designed and utilize and look we’re seeing a different student now postcode but aren’t we.

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Michael Stevens: kids are dealing with all sorts of challenges today that they weren’t dealing with 18 to 24 months ago, we are definitely seeing a different thing I’m sure most colleges will a quick.

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Michael Stevens: And so students who are experiencing challenges for a variety of different reasons it’s whether it’s health services support or student success.

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Michael Stevens: And then, our student success model they deal on a daily basis with academic program leadership we identify students who ideas counsel, but even before that we get notifications of absences and where our teaching students.

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Michael Stevens: and identifying what challenges that student is encountering and how can we support them right on and that’s done a combination through the academic leadership through faculty and through student success, but on any given day there are countless communications going across that landscape.

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Michael Stevens: In order to provide every possible piece of support to our students.

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Michael Stevens: And we found a lot of success with that.

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Michael Stevens: We still lose kids but not nearly as many because of that, and we continue every day like, how can we do better, how could we be better supporting our students, you know you talk about obstacles.

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Michael Stevens: And there’s a lot of obstacles that we see both in our traditional undergraduate students and in our Grad students obviously cost.

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Michael Stevens: You know, in my graduate degree completion program people coming back and that’s another thing.

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Michael Stevens: You know you see the sort of higher education, where historically we had you know continuing education and we saw drops in the enrollment and now in traditional four year school we’ve seen it rebounding.

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Michael Stevens: A lot of people want to come back and get their bachelor’s degrees deal we’ve betty’s college and they’re saying like where’s my next stop.

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Michael Stevens: Right, and so we have articulation agreements with a lot of Community colleges and it’s a good partnership that we have.

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Michael Stevens: And it’s about designing programs, but some of the challenges are Costa, we are the enemy of college always look at who our competitors are and like, how do we set cost to be competitive.

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Michael Stevens: And then we look at you know technology are they successful we’ve seen.

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Michael Stevens: Students struggle when they migrate and it’s particularly freshmen when you put them in an online course, you know how do we best prepare students for success online naturally preparing them.

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Michael Stevens: through training and also through high quality faculty engagement.

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Michael Stevens: So some of the challenges the barriers that we have obviously writing skills so we’re seeing.

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Michael Stevens: A lot of students struggling with writing I’m sure everybody in the room will shake your head, yes to that So what are we doing like we have a terrific Program.

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Michael Stevens: On campus where we’re helping to reevaluate students writing skills placed them in the correct courses, so they can grow and enhance their writing skills and be successful as a matriculate through all of those things.

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Michael Stevens: reflect the challenges to the new student coming in right but that student success peak is essential.

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Michael Stevens: Led by a wonderful person who was all engaged in his I’ll get emails from him nine and 10 in the evening about a student working that hard to make sure every student needs are met and that we’re addressing the challenges to student showing.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And then, once I’m getting the one talking about your student success.

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Betty Fortune: it’s very similar to what Mike is just.

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Betty Fortune: described here, but we try to use the approach that we want to wrap services.

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Betty Fortune: around, and so we call it a care team model, whereas we have a student success coach we have a pathways advisor.

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Betty Fortune: And then we have a support system that consists of Tutoring as I and some other things, and so the success coach meets with the students.

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Betty Fortune: Along with the pathway advisor they work together as well as the Center of excellence director because it’s by a pet by their pathway that they have chosen.

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Betty Fortune: And these people are responsible for getting the students what they need whether it’s more Tutoring whatever it is, they are responsible for connecting the student.

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Betty Fortune: or whatever services and for the students to know that these are the persons that you go to when you need whatever it is that you need you go, this is the point of contact for you, but it works very similar to what Mike is.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): yeah I think that’s important to note is regardless of size of the institution that one on one that connection, having someone that you can go to.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): and be a point of content appointed connection to the university or to the College is so important.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): and helping to support students success and Corey I’m going to turn to you because Betty introducing you know definitely introduce him Mike introduced this to this importance of marketing and how do you communicate.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): and getting that message out to people, and this also tied to the partnerships that need to be built with.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Employers within the Community, in order to get more adult learners the credentials and the academic the academic credentials, they need to further their career so let’s have a conversation about.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): The partnerships that you have at Wiley university services you partner with a variety of institutions, big and small.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): In your work and what are some of the best practices that come to mind when people are going about just evaluating because.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): we’re going to admit it, and sometimes in higher education we get stuck in our routines and the things that we like to do and we don’t always analyze every aspect of.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Our marketing materials are our enrollment processes across the board, so I would love to hear from you about the marketing and communication piece that’s important.

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Corey Miller: yeah sure yeah.

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Corey Miller: it’s changed dramatically I you know, over the last decade, I think.

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Corey Miller: at the highest level, the, the first thing that we kind of think about or you know in our relationships we’re focused on the adult learner and the and the online.

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Corey Miller: student and kind of the marketing plan for that, but we partner with all of our campuses and those marketing teams.

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Corey Miller: I think the first thing that everyone can think about success wise is coming in and separating your strategies from on campus and kind of your distance or adult learners or online degrees.

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Corey Miller: Because those generally tend to be very different target audiences they definitely tend to be different geographies and I think if you can compartmentalize what you’re doing with each of those unique audiences, you can start to kind of define success in different ways, there.

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Corey Miller: So, you know that would be like our first recommendation is kind of look at these as two different worlds and then within each of those buckets.

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Corey Miller: You know, really starting to understand who is your ideal candidate at the program level today, I mean there is a tremendous amount of like program level marketing available.

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Corey Miller: That has more effectiveness over in a more broader general generalized efforts, so you know who’s your ideal candidate, you know from admissions decision prospect.

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Corey Miller: kind of lens.

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Corey Miller: What do they look like, so you know there’s just so much available to us today from a data standpoint to say okay.

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Corey Miller: Who are these candidates, where did they come from what marketing tends to be effective, how do you build models to go activate your marketing spend against lookalikes you know, specifically online when you now have you know the entire country, if not more.

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Corey Miller: To really go find students that are a good fit for your program so there’s you know there’s so much available to us as marketers now to say Okay, this is what a successful enrollment looks like and that’s where else do people.

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Corey Miller: You know where else can we go target to reach to reach similar people because you know I think that’s where success comes from is to your point to is eliminating a lot of.

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Corey Miller: What I’ll call emotional marketing decisions, so you know when you start to unpack marketing budgets, it is all about how do you get the best spend on driving and enrollments for your programs.

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Corey Miller: And things get layered in over time and marketing budgets don’t tend to grow exponentially year over year so.

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Corey Miller: You know, when I call emotional marketing decisions are you know they’re saying well we’ve always sponsored this thing or we’ve always run this ad and.

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Corey Miller: And I totally get why that happens, but the more objective, you can be, I mean the things are changing so rapidly, I mean tick tock wasn’t even a platform a couple years ago and it had more traffic last year than Google.

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Corey Miller: And that’s, not to say go spend a ton of money on tick tock or whatever, but like how people consume media and where they are and kind of what their day looks like as you’re at you know, trying to drive enrollments it’s very you kind of.

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Corey Miller: You need to be able to grab this first party data that’s out there, you know, specifically for the online and digital efforts understand who the students who are who you want.

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Corey Miller: And then you know focus your spend there, so I it takes a lot more front end work, I think, then, you know traditional marketing plans and efforts of.

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Corey Miller: You know 1015 years ago but setting it up the right way and having those right front-end strategies that drive all this make your you know return on investment from an enrollment standpoint just there’s just so much more opportunity there.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Yes, and I’m going to just go ahead and date myself, because if I’m the adult learner they are trying to recruit I won’t be on tick tock I’m still.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): I just want to be honest with you, I have a 14-year-old son and he may be beyond that that that may not be where I.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Am, but I do know that there are some people within my own community that they do use that I mean they’re staying you know.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): they’re more useful than I am let’s say.

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Corey Miller: that’s a great point here and I that’s kind of at our macro level, I think, why you need to compartmentalize what your goals and your budgets are because tick tock with an influencer can be widely effective.

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Corey Miller: For you know, an undergraduate population coming out of high school where it’s not probably going to drive a tremendous amount of MSW starts.

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Corey Miller: Or you know criminal justice starts in Mike’s program so that’s where we kind of have to take a lot of, like,

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Corey Miller: A lot of what’s out there, out of the equation that’s what I call like emotional marketing and be like this is who my audience is this is, you know.

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Corey Miller: I mean Mike’s fire program we literally will build assets to go into fire houses and hold like virtual or in person events, because that’s where that audience is their shift workers they’re 48 hours in a row.

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Corey Miller: You know they’re not on tick tock but they’re also not watching 60 minutes or necessarily listening to radio, the same time, so.

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Corey Miller: We have you know that’s all about meeting understanding, who your audiences who’s an ideal candidate for your program and find out where they are and going it’s just too competitive out there to kind of.

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Corey Miller: You know blast these large awareness programs and how people kind of come to you and fall into these programs you got to go out where they are sometimes it’s tick tock sometimes it’s a firehouse yeah.

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Corey Miller: Sometimes it’s just good on Facebook or Google, but when you understand where they are what’s working it becomes a lot easier to kind of digest.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And I’m with you and me too so it’s the variety, because I’m seeing Thank you Lynn and Christy they’re saying wait a minute I’m 60 plus I want to talk all the time and I’m 46.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You know we’re all tick tock my husband and I the Christie just put in there, so it is a bear variety that’s the message here variety don’t get honed in and don’t stereotype people I’m just saying to me there’s no.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): need to use the more useful in that So there are a couple of questions that are coming in, I think those are great points great points.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): One is that one of someone’s I one of my Brenda so one of my ongoing frustrations, is the way we measure student success right.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And that has been discussed across the board and many, many different places, but so many of our students are in the midst of mental health crises right.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And yet we place an emphasis on pushing them through as fast as we can to get them a job and ideally a high paying job to meet.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You know the state mandated performance metrics So how do we shift that culture of you know.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): We got to understand their mental health and where they are, and maybe not that efficiency goal is where we need to be focusing in on, there are many other ways to measure student success.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So I would just love for you all to respond back to bring this question if you need to you can pull it up, everyone can pull it up and Q amp a and see it.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): But that that’s a serious question our students are dealing with a lot of mental health issues and pushing them through may not be the answer yes, we want them to get their credential and their degree would, what do you think.

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Michael Stevens: Look, I think you’re spot on I wanted to revisit mental health, but I think everybody in this room is going to agree I’ve never seen anything like it I’ve been in higher ED for about 10 years now, and this year.

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Michael Stevens: You know, mental health has been a challenge for you know many of our students and our mental health services that President has expanded services, but all of our students right, I do want to just talk real quickly on partnership just for one minute and go back.

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Michael Stevens: To medical one thing that worked for me on partnership that other schools might want to consider is when you want to create partnerships in cancer enrollment and reputation and brand.

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Michael Stevens: Look at organizations that are highly regarded I partner with the FBI.

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Michael Stevens: Right, they are National Academy FBI leader executive development they bring in.

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Michael Stevens: Some of the most talented law enforcement executives from around the world to attend the 12 week training.

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Michael Stevens: Part of that printer and could be college level work provided by anyone around good people in this room right now right show like I our partnership with the FBI.

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Michael Stevens: Where a three credit college course could be offered at the graduate level for people attending national programs right so there’s a process that you follow what your respective do it in your state and to ensure that the you know, content and quality.

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Michael Stevens: But when you start to create those types of partnerships and build your brand.

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Michael Stevens: It opens up enrollment because other people who are going back to the organization talk about your institution and how they earn credits, while doing law enforcement executive leadership of the FBI right so looking at partnerships.

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Michael Stevens: If you want to expand enrollment that’s a place that colleges universities could look, how can we partner with agencies outside of our own institution that we could offer undergraduate and graduate credit to working professionals.

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Michael Stevens: Who are gaining certifications right so just something to think about when you’re looking at your program and how could we grow our footprint across the United States or the region.

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Michael Stevens: and enhance our brains so that’s something I think people could think about that would be.

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Michael Stevens: That could be beneficial to them, but back to the mental health PEACE I we weren’t touching on it, I didn’t think enough for all you on the webinar.

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Michael Stevens: And it’s essential that we just recognize needs I, but I have walked more screens to help services this year than I have in my entire career.

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Michael Stevens: He will physically walk them over because I love them and care about them and passionate about their staff, and then we dialed back whenever we have to do to support that right um and you can’t I just can’t say enough about the importance of.

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Michael Stevens: Supporting the students and the challenges that during college and.

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Betty Fortune: I.

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Betty Fortune: Just like to add it, this is a very, very sensitive question because it has so many implications, especially in Texas, and I too am concerned about this.

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Betty Fortune: Rushing people through especially student that is challenged with mental issues, but we have options we have organizations or state groups that in Texas.

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Betty Fortune: You get money for student success points, so there is pressure from one in politically.

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Betty Fortune: To move them through, and yet we understand as faculty and students service leaders that you cannot rush a student that’s experiencing some of these kinds of issues we have to be flexible in working with them and provide opportunities to support the students, so you have so many.

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Betty Fortune: it’s like you’re in the middle of this war from political.

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Betty Fortune: partners who is saying we need to do this in order for you to get funding for your institution that kind of thing, and yet we want to stay student ready.

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Betty Fortune: So, again, I appreciate that question so much because it’s a question that I’ve had, as well as.

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Betty Fortune: Well, so where did we land with this we know it’s better to support the student, but they don’t love me and you also have other folks that are pressuring you so you continue having these conversations about rigor.

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Betty Fortune: But it’s you know really solve anything but you continue having those kinds of conversations so where did we land, I would like to back to you I’d love to hear your thoughts on that, because that is one that has been puzzling me for a little while.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): yeah I think it’s I mean it’s an excellent question because we do have to be cognizant of our students mental health and their ability, even to be to fully engage with our environment and to really be able.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): As Mike was saying to assess what they need and how do we actually make sure that our services on campuses.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): are providing that additional wraparound support and.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You are right that you’re exactly right there’s this tug and pull on know we got to get this graduation numbers up, we got to make sure that, because you know.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): All these are these metrics for student success are tied and that goes back to the original question of our definition of student success.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And, and what that means for us being institutions that are really thinking about holistic student engagement and holistic student support, and we have to really recognize that we can do harm.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): By enforcing right by pushing through a student who is struggling who wants to.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): be there, but who may be struggling with all of these other things that we’ve talked about here the family dynamics the.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): The financial dynamics, I mean all these other pieces and I think we have to realize that the path is the same for everyone, and we have to be flexible and you’re exactly right, I think that flexibility is so important.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So I’m there. It really is individualized support, I mean it really is about individualized support. Corey, I don’t know if you wanted to say anything if not I’m going to move on to another question, because we have about five minutes or so.

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Corey Miller: We can cover we can cover your last question I.

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Corey Miller: Think Mike got all of that so

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Corey Miller: we’re the same.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Okay, that sounds good right a couple more questions I’ve been trying to get this in so we’ll have one person responsible to get to these other questions so.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): How do we reach students who are traditionally have not considered post-secondary education, I mean that’s a that’s a huge at the beginning, I share with you the number of students who.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): have some type of post-secondary experience but we’re also talking about since you don’t have any so then once answer that question, how do we actually go about that, how do we entice them to begin this this process.

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Betty Fortune: Okay, again, I think a lot of this has to do with knowing your audience know where they are in life, and what their needs are partnering.

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Betty Fortune: With many of the business leaders in your Community organizations nonprofit organizations.

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Betty Fortune: finding out where they are ended development in developing strategies that will reach or speak to the needs of those students.

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Betty Fortune: And I don’t think we’ll be able to do without partnering with the Community, I think, working in the Community, with so many nonprofit organizations that are out there that are trying to help folks that are in need, will be a good place versus early start.

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and

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Agreed agreed those partnerships are keep going to court.

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Corey Miller: I like we could do a whole other webinar on this question it’s a great one to you it’s like I feel like I could go for an hour, but.

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Corey Miller: Yeah Betty I think it’s about,

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Corey Miller: it’s about building products that are market aligned and are what people need, I think, still in the in the aggregate if you look at everything available to students.

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Corey Miller: A lot of it still fits just a handful of categories and commitments time and money wise and I think.

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Corey Miller: Expanding that offering and coming up with products that are more you know.

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Corey Miller: outcome aligned or career aligned, or you know more fitting into their life stack ability, I think, is probably the number one word I would go to there were you know.

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Corey Miller: In a lot of cases, people making two and three year commitments are out of necessity of their own career but that’s intimidating to a lot of people so.

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Corey Miller: I think, by meeting students on their terms from a product standpoint is going to open up post-secondary education to you know entirely new audiences where it’s you know it better fits their lifestyle.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): yeah I think you’d agree and that’s one of the questions that’s in there that time to degree, I mean reimagining what that means, and then having more outcome focused and.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You know, a demonstration of knowledge, I mean that that’s it that’s a complete me an important conversation for us to think about it, especially in this competitive market them.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): You know what if people need to focus on what they the learning piece as Mike and all embedding in core you were talking about earlier, what is it that they really need to do in order to obtain that credential.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And how do we actually streamline that, in a way, where we are thinking.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): outside of what we normalized as what needs to happen in the two year for year type of model, and I know that that’s been discussed in a lot of different instances.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And I have one more question that we can get to before we have to wrap up if you’re talking about a student journey in the entry.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): But there have been a couple of questions about post enrollment.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Are you doing certain things to support students on the journey after enrollment after they received their credential or their degree.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): And how are you encouraging them to utilize all those great things that we have in the co-curricular experiences at our institution, so we have time for one of you to answer that question I don’t know you can fight over who wants to answer that question.

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Michael Stevens: Just real quick and then I want to go to bed because she’s like all things knowledge so.

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Michael Stevens: enrollment is all about engagement right high quality engagement student satisfaction, high quality teaching and learning.

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Michael Stevens: outreach communication all the seamless things that make the learning journey enjoyable right, and when you have the right curriculum the right content in the right faculty learning becomes fun.

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Michael Stevens: And that’s what we do right, so that in any other.

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Michael Stevens: career building piece majority of my graduate students are in the workplace already and my degree completion students at the undergraduate, we need to prepare for the career and we do that, but um.

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Michael Stevens: There was so much to talk about that marketing piece that we were just talking I’m like I’ll be at the ICP in Dallas Texas.

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Michael Stevens: My job is to go out to Dallas Texas, where every law enforcement agency in the world will be and to sign your MOUs with cities and towns to be higher education provider, so the LAPD the Detroit police, whatever that he might be.

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Michael Stevens: The potential bring hundreds of new students back to your program if you’re passionate about what you have and it’s a high quality Program.

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Michael Stevens: And you can effectively sell it because you believe in, you would be surprised at what you can do in terms of growing your enrollment and more important than growing enrollment but I know my President wants me to.

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Michael Stevens: creating opportunities for people who otherwise without that degree would have never had it it’s empowering people who, in their heart know they want to do it, making them believers.

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Michael Stevens: And then, giving them this gift of education that will set them on a different trajectory in your life in terms of success that’s what I do every day that’s what I’m passionate about.

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Michael Stevens: down to what I believe in anybody at any institution can do this.

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Michael Stevens: If there was passionate, as we all are, and they have a program that adapt problems to go out and to do that.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Agreed agreed.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): and any other comments.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): That you want to make Betty did you want to address that are you good.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): you’re good Okay, and I do want to say Vicki Lynn home posted something to us, I think it’s very important it’s a good place for us to end and as we bring up the slide to thank our colleagues.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Mike and Betty and Corey for being part of this.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Is that we’ve got to make sure that when we talk about time to degree.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): That we don’t tell a certain group of students, especially are racially minorities and underserved students in higher education, so you can take as much time as you want.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): As we’re trying to think about the student success because we, as we talk a lot in our work, we have to really make sure we understand the racialized consequences.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): For our decisions and how they may be, in the equity consequences for our decisions, and what we promote and what we market and what we share so those are great considerations and as we develop as more equity.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): Focus equity centered practitioners we’re going to start asking these deeper questions so next slide please.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): So thank you, thank you to our university partners Anna Maria College and Houston Community College and to Wiley University Services.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): For sponsoring this webinar and for this discussion and you’re exactly right, we could there are so many more questions, even in the Q&A that could be a whole another webinar and maybe we’ll be able to.

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Dr. Tia McNair (she, her): have the opportunity to bring that to you, so thank you all for joining us, we appreciate your time with us and have a wonderful rest of your day.